Daniel Schmachtenberger 的观点让我深思：科技和资本主义在某些方面确实带来了进步，但这并非全貌。它们也可能导致环境污染和廉价食品的泛滥，最终损害我们的健康。我们发明了化学武器来大规模破坏自然，却反过来将这些物质喷洒在食物上。人类每天摄入微量，长期累积，后果不堪设想。疾病是可以改变的，无论是通过个体行为的改变，还是通过系统性变革来实现。

我们之所以生病，部分原因在于我们改造环境的方式与自身的基因适应性产生了冲突。采矿业带来的巨量有毒废物，最终流入水体，破坏了亿万年来形成的生物圈平衡。地球上只有一个已知的适宜生命存在的星球，而这得益于其独特的化学构成。然而，我们却在竭尽全力地制造出这种化学构成无法处理的全毒性物质。

我们正处于危险之中。 如果将人类视为食物，我们并不安全。平均每个新生儿的脐带血中都含有287种毒素；母乳、母亲血液和婴儿脐带血中都检测到200到300种石化和工业毒素。在人类进化的过程中，我们从未接触过有机磷酸盐，因此我们的身体缺乏应对机制。我们发明了足以杀死核冬天后幸存昆虫的剧毒农药，却将它们喷洒在食物上，最终进入我们的身体。自身免疫性疾病等慢性疾病，正是这种“总负荷”现象的结果——各种有害物质的长期累积。

铅的危害不容忽视。 在人类进化史中，铅从未存在于我们的环境中，因此任何剂量的铅都是有害的。然而，工业为了自身利益，游说环保机构放宽标准，将铅的“安全”含量定在一个对人体有害的水平上。这导致儿童、老年人乃至我们自身都面临着癌症、神经系统疾病等风险。血液中的毒素会迅速排出，但无法及时排出的部分则会储存在组织中。因此，单纯的血液检测并不能反映真实的毒素水平，我们需要更全面的检测方法。

四乙基铅的教训。 四乙基铅曾被广泛用作汽油添加剂，以防止发动机爆震。尽管其毒性早已为人所知，但出于经济利益，相关研究结果被长期隐瞒。将铅雾化后释放到空气中，其危害性被严重低估。据估计，仅在美国，铅就导致了10亿点的智商损失，并引发了暴力、冲动控制障碍等问题。即使铅被禁用，其残留物仍然存在于土壤、管道和水中，持续危害着人类健康。2019年，五岁以下儿童因铅暴露造成的智商损失高达7.8亿点。

医疗保健的困境。 铅的危害远不止于智商下降，它还会增加心脏病、癌症、骨质疏松症和精神疾病的风险。一项研究表明，铅含量超过2的成年人和儿童，中风和心脏病发作的风险高于胆固醇异常者。NIH的试验也证实了螯合疗法在预防心脏病方面的有效性，但它并未被纳入标准医疗体系。

我们面临的挑战远不止铅。 数百万种化学物质被广泛使用，但缺乏监管。疾病并非单一原因导致，而是多种因素长期累积的结果。我们习惯于将疾病简单分类，然后用药物治疗，却忽略了疾病的根本原因。

功能医学的视角。 功能医学试图从整体出发，寻找人体功能失调的根本原因，并采取多模式治疗方法。许多疾病，例如2型糖尿病、痴呆症等，并非不可逆转。通过改善饮食、生活方式和环境，我们可以有效地预防和逆转这些疾病。

打破思维定势。 我们必须打破“疾病不可逆转”的思维定势。许多疾病的早期迹象可以提前几十年发现，如果及时干预，就能有效预防或延缓疾病发展。

行动起来。 我们需要从个人和系统两个层面采取行动。个人层面，我们要改善饮食、生活方式，减少接触有害物质；系统层面，我们需要推动政策变革，减少环境污染，规范工业生产。

重拾健康，重塑未来。 我们只有一个地球，我们必须保护它，保护我们自身的健康。只有打破思维定势，积极行动，才能创造一个更健康、更美好的未来。

The Doctor's Farmacy with Mark Hyman, M.D.⋅1d ago

I recently sat down with Daniel Schmachtenberger, a strategist and founding voice behind The Consili

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00:27 科技和资本主义在某些方面确实带来了进步，但并非所有方面都是如此，它们也可能导致环境污染和廉价食品，从而对我们的健康产生负面影响。

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00:47 我们发明了化学武器来大规模破坏自然，却将其喷洒在所有食物上，人类摄入微量，长期累积会对健康造成危害。

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00:47 疾病是可以改变的，无论是通过个人行为还是通过系统性变革。

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04:43 人们普遍认为疾病的增加仅仅是因为诊断手段的进步，但事实并非如此，科技和资本主义在某些方面确实带来了进步，但并非所有方面都是如此。

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05:09 科技和资本主义在某些方面确实带来了进步，但并非所有方面都是如此，它们也可能导致环境污染和廉价食品，从而对我们的健康产生负面影响。

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05:59 毒性不仅仅是嬉皮士的无稽之谈，而是一个真实存在的问题，它不是急性中毒，而是慢性的、亚临床或亚急性的。

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06:45 每个人的治疗都应该是基于他们的病史、症状、实验室结果和独特情况而个性化的。

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07:25 DNA不是蓝图，而是一个生成函数，可以根据新的情况制造新的蛋白质。

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07:52 生物系统与机械系统不同，它具有自我组织、自我修复和自我进化的能力。

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08:29 我们之所以生病，是因为我们修改环境的方式使我们无法在基因上适应。

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08:56 如果你是殖民主义者，想要杀死所有的土著居民，那么霍布斯的宣传就非常有用。

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09:34 进化会选择更高级的生命形式，一个更高级的物种取代一个更低级的物种是好的。

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11:07 权力系统的主要叙事必须证明权力系统的合理性，因此它将为权力系统辩护。

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11:33 总的来说，更爱好和平的文化被好战的文化屠杀，我们是那些擅长战争和武器、擅长屠杀大量人口的人的后代。

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12:06 疾病来自自然，进步来自科学，并通过市场将科学技术应用于世界。

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12:32 在引入疫苗之前，由于更好的卫生和健康条件，麻疹已经减少了90%。

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13:17 技术农业确实让很多人患病，技术采矿等造成的普遍污染也让很多人患病。

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13:44 人为疾病是指由于我们作为一个物种的行为而导致的疾病。

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14:12 采矿会产生大量的有毒废物，这些废物最终会进入水中，破坏生物圈。

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14:42 这个地方非常棒，我们应该比任何事情都更想保护它，而不是搬到火星。

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15:31 我们适应了这个星球，这个星球支持生命，这是非常罕见的。

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16:02 生物圈主要由六个原子组成：氧、碳、氢、氮、磷和钙。

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16:43 人、狗、老鼠、蝎子、树和真菌都是由相同的物质、相同的原子和相同的分子键组成的。

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17:25 进化之所以能够发挥作用，部分原因是所有生物都是由相同的物质组成的，并且需要相同的物理条件。

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18:07 相互共生之所以能够存在，是因为我们实际上可以相互回收利用。

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18:27 从这个角度来看，采矿是非常愚蠢的，它从地球上取出其他奇怪的东西，这些东西应该埋在那里，因为它们与我们的生物学不相容。

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18:54 我们只有一个已知的可居住星球，它是由于特定的化学成分才得以居住的，而我们正在尽可能快地制造这种化学成分无法处理的全毒性物质。

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19:35 如果我们是食物，我们就不安全食用，因为平均每个新生儿的脐带血中含有287种毒素。

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20:05 母乳、母亲的血液和婴儿的脐带中含有200到300种石化和工业毒素。

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20:34 在我们的进化环境中，我们没有接触过有机磷酸盐，因此没有进化过程可以处理有机磷酸盐。

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20:56 我们想要制造出一种足够有毒的物质来杀死能够度过核冬天的昆虫，然后我们将其喷洒在所有食物上并食用。

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21:23 自身免疫性疾病等慢性疾病是总负荷现象的结果，是所有因素累积叠加的结果。

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21:42 在进化环境中，根本没有铅这种物质，因此任何剂量的铅对你来说都是有害的。

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22:11 行业会游说环保局制定一个不会对行业造成太大影响的数字，而代价是你的孩子、你的祖父母和你自己的健康，以及每个人都会得的癌症。

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23:58 身体会尽快排出血液中循环的物质，如果无法快速排出，就会将其储存在组织中。

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24:49 我们倾向于做我们能做的测试，而不是正确的测试。

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27:49 四乙基铅是一种汽油添加剂，用于防止发动机爆震，但并不是绝对必要的。

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28:09 对四乙基铅的早期毒性研究结果被隐藏起来，因为经济利益。

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28:22 将铅添加到汽油中意味着将其雾化，并将一种已知的有毒化学物质大规模释放到空气中。

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28:51 估计仅在美国，铅对美国人的智商造成的损失就高达10亿点。

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29:15 人为地使人类变得更愚蠢和更卑鄙，这影响了冲动控制和学校表现。

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30:01 铅仍然存在于土壤中，仍然存在于大多数管道中，仍然存在于水中。

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30:39 2019年的一项研究表明，仅在2019年，五岁以下儿童就因铅损失了7.8亿智商点。

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31:36 游说方试图提高铅的安全水平，而证明其毒性则降低了铅的安全水平。

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31:49 如果你的铅水平超过2（十分之二），这是39%的成年人和儿童的水平，那么中风和心脏病发作的风险比胆固醇异常更大。

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32:31 NIH进行了一项耗资3000万美元的试验，发现EDTA静脉螯合疗法在预防心脏病和心脏病发作方面非常有效。

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33:08 目前所谓的正常范围实际上与进化水平相比是不正确的，因为我们所说的1到10实际上是百万分之一。

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34:20 全球五岁以下儿童在2019年损失了7.8亿智商点，这应该被列为危害人类罪。

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34:40 铅会导致智商下降、心脏病、癌症、骨质疏松症和冲动控制障碍、攻击性等精神疾病。

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35:18 有35万种化学品在工业上被经常使用，但没有受到监管，美国化学学会的数据库中有2.8亿种化学品。

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35:53 疾病不是你得的，而是我们所处环境的后果。

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36:48 我们创造了一个疾病滋生的环境，一个致病的文化、社会、环境、食物环境和毒素环境。

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38:37 阿尔茨海默病确实是一种现代疾病。

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39:12 尽管我们在医疗保健上花费了数万亿美元，但我们并没有得到多少回报。

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40:13 推行大规模叙事的人通常有政治动机或资本动机。

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40:50 人们寿命延长，但他们生命的后半段却依赖于多种药物，生活质量下降，只能靠人为手段维持生命。

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42:36 我们的医疗保健系统本身是第三大死因。

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43:02 如果我们将医源性疾病定义为来自与医疗保健系统相互作用的疾病，那么它就是美国人的头号死因。

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43:51 缺乏急性症状并不等于对健康的良好定义。

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44:23 在你出现明显的组织损伤之前，你可以提前几十年发现疾病的迹象，并采取措施。

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44:55 身体对压力的反应能力比它们所处的水平更重要。

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45:38 大多数人带着很多症状四处走动，这意味着相对于良好的健康状况而言，他们实际上已经处于疾病的晚期发展阶段。

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46:30 我们需要清洁的水、清洁的空气、运动、休息、爱、意义和归属感。

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47:01 孤独的危害相当于每天吸两包烟。

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47:41 疾病有很多原因，而不是没有原因或单一原因。

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48:06 复杂因果关系与简单因果关系是故事的主要部分，简单因果关系通常是直接的。

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48:29 急性与慢性、单因素与多因素是我们需要区分的主要部分。

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49:32 人们死于免疫系统无法正常工作时释放出来的其他细菌感染，而不是死于艾滋病毒感染。

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50:10 人们都知道，当他们感到压力、寒冷、疲倦或感冒时，就会出现唇疱疹。

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50:36 人们都知道，他们的身体里潜伏着一种感染，但有很多这样的感染，它们通常是隐藏的，潜伏的，也许只有轻微的症状或没有症状。

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50:57 很多人都携带某种病毒，比如EBV或CMV。

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51:49 EBV会导致慢性疲劳，但说EBV会导致慢性疲劳是相当还原论的。

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52:12 感染会导致无数的问题，比如疱疹会导致阿尔茨海默病的风险增加，但这并不意味着所有的阿尔茨海默病都是由细菌引起的。

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53:01 阿尔茨海默病不是一种疾病，有些人将其描述为大脑的2型糖尿病，有些人将其描述为大脑的类风湿性关节炎，有些人将其描述为大脑的感染。

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53:21 如果你听到有人患有类风湿性关节炎、多发性硬化症或阿尔茨海默病，你不会立刻知道该怎么做，而是会寻找那些会激怒免疫系统的东西，比如毒素、过敏原、微生物、压力和不良饮食。

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53:54 疾病没有单一原因，我们应该思考因果关系。

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54:23 我们不应该仅仅给疾病贴上标签，然后用药物治疗标签，而应该思考和联系，努力理解模式和故事，并找到根本原因。

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54:53 医学需要从命名和责备的过程转变为思考和联系，一旦做出诊断，就开始思考过程，试图理解数据中的模式，以及正在讲述的故事。

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55:25 慢性疾病的流行是人为因素造成的，这意味着我们可以对其进行控制。

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56:26 我们需要理解什么是最佳水平，而不是仅仅关注是否缺乏导致急性疾病。

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56:54 疾病不是一种非此即彼的现象，而是一个从轻微的生化失衡到完全爆发的疾病和死亡的连续体。

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57:38 我们对血糖、血压和维生素D等指标的任意截止值是基于对人群的钟形曲线的测量，而不是基于最佳水平。

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58:32 我们根据人群中的钟形曲线来确定什么是所谓的正常水平，但如果钟形曲线因为人们生病而向右或向左移动，那么我们所选择的是人群中的正常水平，而不是最佳水平。

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58:41 仅仅知道疾病的名称并不意味着你知道这个人出了什么问题。

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59:09 被诊断为类风湿性关节炎的两个人可能没有相同的病史、表现和实验室结果。

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59:27 类风湿性关节炎只是我们给一组具有某些标准的患者的名称，这些标准是基于症状、晨僵、特定关节炎症模式和某些实验室测试建立的。

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01:00:03 医源性疾病是指由医生引起的疾病。

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01:00:22 这不是对医生的批评，而是对一些系统性错误的批评，这些错误影响了医生被允许做的事情，以及医生的培训方式。

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01:00:48 传统医学认为，心力衰竭、痴呆和2型糖尿病等疾病是不可逆转的。

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01:01:32 功能医学不是治疗疾病，而是试图理解什么是健康，什么是与健康的偏差，以及我们如何测量身体中的功能障碍、缺乏弹性和平衡。

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01:02:01 胰岛素抵抗会导致痴呆、心脏病和癌症等多种疾病。

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01:02:43 即使是四期胰腺癌，使用生酮饮食也能看到缓解。

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01:02:58 医学缺乏解释人类健康的普遍规律，而是越来越细化地描述疾病。

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01:03:56 功能医学是第一次尝试创建一套原则，解释什么是人为疾病，以及你是否受到了过多身体不喜欢的物质的侵害，或者你是否缺乏身体茁

00:00

Coming up on this episode of The Dr. Hyman Show. We are a food we wouldn't be safe to eat. We have a progress narrative that things are getting better and better because of tech and capitalism. And there are certainly areas where that's true. It's just not the whole story. Daniel Schmachtenberger is a social philosopher. And system strategist studying how collapsing institutions. And exponential tech are reshaping our health. Some of the effects of tech and capitalism create environmental pollution, cheaper healthcare or cheaper food that has side effects and externalities that affect our bodies. 语法解析

00:27

And so we figured out organophosphates, napalm, awesome. We can kill a lot of people and defoliate the whole jungle of Vietnam with this. Oh, guess what? We can also make an herbicide and spray it on all of our food. As you see in your clinic every day, it's all changing. And it's changeable acutely for each person with behaviors they can take. And it's changeable at scale for everybody with behaviors we can take to do systemic changes. 语法解析

00:47

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01:03

I use the panel at home to help unwind after physical therapy or to support recovery after exercise or travel. It's easy to integrate, just a few minutes a day, no complicated setup, and I personally found it helpful for managing occasional discomfort and supporting overall resilience. If you're looking for a simple, research-informed tool to support your recovery or performance goals, this is one I recommend exploring. Visit bondcharge.com and use code DRMARK for 15% off. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E.com, code DRMARK. 语法解析

01:32

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01:49

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02:06

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02:22

Before we jump into today's episode, I want to share a few ways you can go deeper on your health journey. While I wish I could work with everyone one-on-one, there just isn't enough time in the day, so I've built several tools to help you take control of your health. If you're looking for guidance, education, and community, check out my private membership, 语法解析

02:38

the Hyman Hive for live Q&A's, exclusive content and direct connection. For real-time lab testing and personalized insights into your biology, visit Function Health. You can also explore my curated doctor trusted supplements and health products at drhyman.com. And if you prefer to listen without any breaks, don't forget you can enjoy every episode of this podcast ad free with Hyman Plus. Just open Apple Podcasts and tap try free to start your seven day free trial. All right, Daniel, I'm so excited to have you. 语法解析

03:05

on the show. This is a long time in coming. We had many conversations, which I've tried to keep up with and understand how you think because I don't imagine many people have heard of you, know about you or know who you are, but your background and your thinking is so remarkable in its depth and its clarity and its ability to bridge many different disciplines and come up with an overarching understanding of what's wrong in our society and 语法解析

03:30

where our existential threats are and how we can fix them. It's going to be straight. We're in a really shitty situation where we have more and more health care, quote, sick care, and more and more illness, and it's 语法解析

03:45

exploding at such a rate that we can't even keep up with it. Just in my 40 years of being a doctor, I've seen just the acceleration of chronic diseases and both in the amount of suffering, the severity, the scope of them, the increase in new diseases. It's just, it's remarkable. But the last, you know, a hundred years, we've seen this sort of inversion of, of 语法解析

04:09

of the life expectancy curve. It's kind of starting to dip down and we're starting to see a drop in life expectancy. And I think it has to do with the kind of rise of what you have termed anthropogenic disease. 语法解析

04:19

First, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here. I followed your work for a very long time before we got to know each other through Institute of Functional Medicine and things like that. Obviously, over the 40 years you've been in practice, that was already after the better living through chemistry boom started and modern industrial agriculture started. So it would be even a more extreme picture if we went back further. You've obviously studied the history on going back further. A lot of 语法解析

04:43

People think, oh, well, the rise in diseases is just a result of we're diagnosing more or something like that, as opposed to, no, there are ways. Like we have a progress narrative that things are getting better and better because of tech and capitalism and democracy and whatever. And there are certainly areas where that's true. It's just not the whole story. Right. And there are areas where some of the effects of tech and capitalism create environmental pollution or cheaper health care or cheaper food. 语法解析

05:09

that has side effects and externalities that affect the environment, but help affect our bodies. So, so let's talk about that. I mean, let's dive into what, you know, we're sort of set the stage for the fact that, you know, we were having increasing rates of these chronic diseases, increasing rates of mental health crisis, increasing rates of neurodevelopmental issues, 语法解析

05:26

decreasing life expectancy. I mean, it's a grim situation and we're spending more and more and getting less and less. So the question then is, what is this context in which the disease occurring? Why is this happening? And what are the anthropogenic reasons for this chronic disease epidemic? 语法解析

05:44

So you were, as you were going through the list, you mentioned vitamin D, you mentioned mercury, that's obviously deficiency, toxicity. You mentioned some pathogens. You mentioned stress. So you have a model of like what the underlying categories are. And a lot of them are things like 语法解析

05:59

everybody knows what acute deficiency is, what acute toxicity. You just got a bag of chemicals poured on you. You have acute poisoning. You're vomiting. You have to go in for toxicology. But there is something that is called toxicity that is not just a hippie nonsense idea. It's a real thing. It is not acute poisoning that is chronic, that is subclinical or subacute. Same with infections. You have acute infection. You're 语法解析

06:22

producing symptomology versus kind of subclinical infections, which is in Lyme disease or in viruses that cause cancers or whatever it is. So the treatment of everyone's going to be personalized, not based on a disease diagnosis, but based on their actual medical history, their symptomology, their labs, and what's uniquely going on for them. But it's going to be personalized within a framework that is kind of not that hard. Yeah. 语法解析

06:45

- Yeah, that's right. I mean, the laws of nature are pretty simple. Pierre Laplace said, they're the laws of biology when I think we're describing them and I think we're getting toward approximation of what that looks like. And there's just, you know, functional medicine is just a heuristic. It's not the end all and be all. It's just a framework that we're continually evolving to understand the complexity of human biology. 语法解析

07:04

which is infinitely unknowable, but even though it's so complex, you know, a rocket ship is complicated, right? But it's knowable. It's a known known. Well, there's a blueprint that specifies it completely. Yeah. And DNA is actually not a blueprint. It's a generator function, which can make a new protein that's never made exposed to a new thing. Yeah. Right? 语法解析

07:25

And it evolved rather than was designed, which is why it's self-repairing, right? The rocket ship doesn't self-repair. It doesn't self-evolve. And so biology is not mechanics, right? It's like it's a different, unique thing that have a system that self-organizes, wasn't created from the outside, that has an immune system, right? Like it'd be dope if our computer had an immune system, but it doesn't or our car, right? Things that self-repair and self-evolve. 语法解析

07:52

And so we're like, okay, what's happening in a system that is building itself, evolving itself, repairing itself is obviously different in type than a system that doesn't repair itself. 语法解析

08:01

that doesn't evolve itself. So we have to make sure we're using the right epistemology, right? The right kind of scientific framework. So you were talking about laws of biology and we're talking about anthropogenic stuff, which is like stuff in the current world that is different than the evolutionary environment, even though our genes aren't different, right? Like modifying the environment in a way that we are not actually genetically fit to. That mismatch is really why we're sick. So let's talk about that a little bit, because I think the first thing is a lot of people are still suffering from the propaganda of Hobbes. 语法解析

08:29

and Hobbes' descendants, right? Man in the state of nature's life is brutish, short, nasty, and mean. And as you already mentioned, the average life expectancy was 30 and their life was shit the entire time until they were 30. And that's nature, right? That's just nature. That's human biology. That's nature. And our civilizing ourselves with technology is creating longer lives and everything's getting better and better. And this is like awesome propaganda if you're colonialist and you want to kill all the natives. Right. 语法解析

08:56

We're helping them by killing them because they won't have to suffer so much. I mean, Churchill has a famous quote that says, I'm going to paraphrase it. I actually have a whole list of quotes about manifest destiny of kings. I mean, manifest destiny in the US and divine right of kings and like just stuff that when we look back, we say, wow, that was the most dreadful quote. 语法解析

09:18

propaganda nonsense. But we still do the same kind of thing. But Churchill said something like, you know, I don't hold for one second that our treatment of the red man is a bad thing in any way because evolution selects for higher life forms and a higher species replacing the lower species is good. 语法解析

09:34

Right. And you're like, shit, that's a big deal. So North and South America, the Americas before Columbus, et cetera, right before colonization was roughly depending on who you look at 140 million people. And within a short period of colonization, both from infections and war and driving them out of viable habitats, the population was decimated by 90%. And if you look at that and you compare it to whatever, 6 million Jews in the Holocaust, right. And you're like, 语法解析

10:03

190% of 140 million, which is so many different civilizations that had different languages and songs and art and pharmacologies and just gone. And similarly, so many ecosystems, so many species, like we don't have the giant sloth, we don't have the mammoth. Those were largely, many of those were early human extinction from over hunting, from destroying habitats. And of course it makes sense that like if the winner writes history, 语法解析

10:31

Of course they're the good guy, right? The winner's not going to say we were the bad guys, but we were better at weapons than them. We destroyed them because they were peaceful and lovely. No, we're going to say they were brutish and terrible and we brought… 语法解析

10:43

democracy and Christianity and whatever. You can say Christianity, you can say Islam, you can say whatever the thing is that is justifying why it won. So there's something where it's like the dominant narrative of a power system has to justify the power system. And so it's going to be apologism for the power system. We saw that through the crusades, through the dark ages. And so history is hard, right? Because we got to read this 语法解析

11:07

Stuff that's written by the winners. Yeah, and you're like in general more peaceful cultures got slaughtered I'm a warring cultures It's not like everybody that Genghis Khan slaughtered was a less good civilization No, they were less good at war But how many people that knew how to live in more peace got slaughtered in the process because they didn't build Maximally lethal militaries and yet we are the descendants of who made it through history which you are good at war and weapons and killing massive populations and 语法解析

11:33

not keeping populations in stable relationship with their environment, good at technology that can be used in competition and war. So it's a really interesting selection criteria. So then we tell the story, oh, they only lived for 30 years and life was terrible. But you were just saying like, hey, no, actually some of the Plains Indians lived into 100. A lot of them were living to 100. This is such an important story because I think one of the things that I want 语法解析

11:56

to get across in this conversation is there's still this general idea that is a part of the progress narrative, that is a part of just propaganda, say, that is 语法解析

12:06

The diseases come from nature. Man in a state of nature's life is brutish or nasty and mean. And the progress comes from science and the application of science and technology brought to the world via the market, blah, blah, blah. And now look at how long we live and vaccines solved all these issues and whatever. It's not that there's no truth to it, but it is cherry picking. The stats pretty heavily. 90% of measles was gone when they've introduced the vaccine because of better sanitation and health. 语法解析

12:32

This is a pretty important part of the story. And so if you rewind a little bit to say Dark Ages Europe, this is not an indigenous culture. And then if the indigenous cultures you're studying post-science, which is very recently, are post-Trail of Tears after you've already slaughtered most of them, moved them to an area where they don't understand the plants or animals and that were like crap areas. 语法解析

12:52

And then they're drinking and whatever. You're like, this is not a study of indigenous people. So there's a lot of indigenous scholars that are like, come on, this is ridiculous. Like, no, we had a lot of people that were 100 years old. There's a lot of diseases we just didn't have. So this idea that like the diseases just come from nature. Our genome is a bummer, right? Like nature is a bummer. Tech is going to solve it. As opposed to like actually technological agriculture has really made a lot of people sick. Yeah. 语法解析

13:17

Technological mining and et cetera that has caused ubiquitous pollution made a lot of people sick. So when we say anthropogenic disease, we're not just talking about iatrogenic, right? Anthropogenic meaning diseases we have that are a result of our own action as a species. So if you take mining, for instance, right? There's 2 billion tons of municipal waste produced every year. Waste that comes from our house. It's a lot, 2 billion tons, like mind-blowing when you think about it. 语法解析

13:44

there's about 190 billion tons of mining waste produced every year. That's a lot. Because you mine stuff, but that rock, it's not all the thing you want, right? You want a particular metal. All the stuff you don't want is waste, is tailings. That stuff is almost all super toxic. And it gets put in some big dam that eventually breaks and all goes in the water. This is comprehensively undoing what took the biosphere a billion years to do that made life possible in the first place. You had actually mentioned something I want to… It's 语法解析

14:12

It's a tangent, but I want to double down on this. Maybe there's aliens. Who knows? We're not going to get into that part right now. But when we look out at the universe, we see a lot of planets that are not habitable and we don't see a lot of places that look habitable. This place is pretty awesome. I don't see any. Right? Carl Sagan's pale blue dot is as relevant today as it was back then. Yeah. So this, like the fact that it's habitable to life is a big deal. We should want to protect it more than anything. Not move to Mars? No. 语法解析

14:42

Obviously, if you deal with radiation and other issues, 0.4g is a pretty tricky issue to deal with. As you see, the people who go into 0g and they do a lot of resistance training and everything to try to deal with it, bone density goes down, neural density goes down. Neural density drops pretty massively. 语法解析

15:05

you know, like obviously we have all fit to this planet. We have a planet that supports life. It's rare as can be, right? It's everything we care about depends on that. And it took a long, like the other planets didn't do that. At least in the time period that we can see, that's very special. It took whatever, a billion-ish years for geological, hydrological processes to make a space where 语法解析

15:31

abiogenesis could start to happen, right? Where life could start to emerge. And that was trapping all the super toxic stuff in which life couldn't emerge in rocks and the lithosphere and making a certain temperature range and whatever that life could emerge in. And then it took like a billion years of just single cell creatures to make a biosphere in which multicellular creatures could emerge and on and on. And then you look at the biosphere, a complex biosphere, and you're like, it's pretty much six atoms. 语法解析

16:02

Right? Like there's 92 elements in the periodic table. Carbon, hydrogen. Yeah. Oxygen first, right? Like 65% of our body by weight is oxygen because of water. Oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, phosphorus, calcium make up 96% of our weight. Yeah. And you add a few electrolytes in there and it's 99% of our weight. 语法解析

16:22

And then you have trace minerals and the trace minerals are important. They're a tiny bit, but roughly every animal plant, whatever, has the same distribution of trace minerals, the same building blocks, the same type of molecular bonds. This is a humongous deal to understand. Me and you and a dog and a mouse and a scorpion and a tree and a fungus. 语法解析

16:43

are made of the same stuff, same atoms, same molecular bonds, which is why any of them can die, go on the soil, turn into soil, turn into new stuff. A tree can fall, body can fall, an animal can defecate. 语法解析

16:56

Rattlesnake poison right like super duper poisonous stuff still the nature of the bonds it dies breaks down doesn't stay as an enduring toxin I'm like plutonium which stays around forever. Yes or PFAS or whatever right? It's a hair foam because those are either atoms that were not part of the biosphere that we got through mining or Molecules that we made up in a chem lab that nothing in nature knows how to break down right like your bond So just to get a sense of like part of what allows evolution to work is that we're all made of the same stuff And we need the same physics, right? 语法解析

17:25

Obviously, the North Pole to the equator are different temperatures. So polar bears don't do very well in the Savannah and cheetahs wouldn't do very well in the Arctic. But the temperature difference from the North Pole to the equator is almost nothing compared to everywhere else in outer space. Right? The sun's really hot. Well, some things are very hot, some things are very cold. But like everything here operates with the same pressure, the same physics, the same ionizing radiation, the same chemicals, the same temperature ranges. 语法解析

17:52

That's a big deal to get. And the same chemicals and the same molecular bonds, a huge deal. And it's part of why co-evolution works, why there can be mutual symbiosis is we are literally recyclable into each other. Now, if you think about 语法解析

18:07

From that perspective, how rare life in the universe is, how rare the biosphere is, how it's all based on basically these same six atoms, same molecular bonds and a little bit of trace minerals. Then you start to think about how mind-blowingly stupid mining is. Taking other weird things out of the earth that should be buried in there and things that we should be protected from because they don't. 语法解析

18:27

Do well with our biology. Things that are omni-toxic to all life forms, right? Like mercury is bad for all life forms. Cadmium is bad for all life forms. Lead is bad for all life forms, et cetera. So fortunately for us, the earth has a lot of those, but they're all bound in rock in the lithosphere under the biosphere, not part of the biosphere. We don't have to deal with them. So what do we do? We say those are useful for industrial purposes. So let's actually destroy the biosphere on top to make a mine. Let's pull this rock up. Let's pull that super toxic thing out through… 语法解析

18:54

smelting and metallurgy and whatever. And if we just kept it all in a perfect metal and recycled, it'd be one thing. But we burn the coal and put the mercury and lead in the air. We put the lead in the gasoline, you know, and aerosolized it. And then also the rest of the part that is toxic tailings also goes out. So you're like, we have one planet that we know is habitable. 语法解析

19:14

it's habitable because of specific chemistry. And we are as fast as possible making omni-toxic shit that chemistry can't deal with. - And that's a big part of what's making us sick, and it's something that medicine sort of ignored, which is this chronic low-level burden of toxins that we're all exposed to. And we're all basically accessible. If we were food, we wouldn't be safe to eat. The average newborn has 287 toxins in their umbilical cord blood. 语法解析

19:35

before they take their first breath. - We see the same thing in the mother's breast milk, right? And in her blood, like just people need to have this sink in. Mother breast milk, mother's blood, baby umbilical cord, two to 300 petrochemical and industrial toxins. - It's crazy. I mean, and you should still breastfeed, but it's still– - To even call it low level is ridiculous, actually. - I've thought of a business of creating a breast milk filter. I don't know how you do that, but– - Well, the lymphatic system is a filter, but it can only filter, 语法解析

20:05

In our evolutionary environment, we were not exposed to organophosphates. So what evolutionary process can deal with organophosphates? And so we figured out organophosphates, napalm, awesome. We can kill a lot of people and defoliate the whole jungle of Vietnam with this. Oh, guess what? We can also make an herbicide and spray it on all of our food. Glyphosate. Yeah. To think about this thing that we invented as a chemical weapon to destroy nature at scale. Napalm, which is dioxin. Same molecular class. We figure out, oh, we can kill weeds. 语法解析

20:34

in agricultural settings, but we're going to spray it on all the food and humans are going to eat trace amounts of all of it. And the pesticides, like the thing that blows my mind about pesticides, you're like, okay, nuclear modeling. Nuclear war happens, nuclear winter, almost everything dies. The only things that make it are bugs with exoskeletons. We want to make something poisonous enough to kill bugs that can make it through a nuclear winter and we spray it all over our food. 语法解析

20:56

And then eat it. And just because we're bigger, it's not a lethal amount, but it's a long-term lethal amount. But it bioaccumulates and it's additive. And over time, it's sort of like, that's what I see so many of the times that we see. And in many of the diseases of aging, chronic disease that we're talking about, including autoimmune diseases, are all the result of this total load phenomenon. It's not just one thing. It's a total load of everything. And you keep adding and adding and adding. 语法解析

21:23

So when you say low level, it's important to say – so we're talking about lead poisoning, right? There's like – you have acute lead poisoning. You have Mad Hatter syndrome. Okay, that happens because you're working in a lead mine or some industrial source, right? But how much was there in an evolutionary environment? None. So what amount is good for you? None. Right. Right. 语法解析

21:42

So that's why I laugh when I see the reference range on the lab of like the level of mercury that's considered normal is one zero to 10. I'm like, well, there's no biological requirement for mercury. It's zero is the normal level. Yes. Yet that would mess up so much industry that the industry is going to lobby the EPA to make a number that doesn't mess up the industry too much. And the cost, the externalized cost is your children's health and your grandparents' health and your health and the cancers that everybody's going to get. Yeah. I see this. I mean, I saw this kid, my practice years ago was 语法解析

22:11

His mother was just so, such a good, attentive, observant mother. And she saw this kid who went from a normal little kid to being extremely difficult, extremely aggressive, violent, learning difficulties, dysgraphia, dyslexia, just a whole bunch of things, neurodevelopmental things. And, you know, she said, we live north of Albany in this town where there's a cement plant across the street from the school. 语法解析

22:39

This is why the history is so important. How many doctors ask their patients if they live near a cement plant or a coal plant? Nobody asks that, right? But it's part of the history that we find really essential. And she said every day after school, the cars would be coated. Like in Austin here, when it's pollen season, like your car's just coated with pollen. Their cars every day were coated with dust. 语法解析

23:02

from the cement plant. And that, quote, dust was a toxic soup of chemicals. And when I actually did a chelation challenge test, which again, is something we don't do in traditional medicine, but we look at your blood levels and that can tell you if there's an acute exposure. And often there are levels that are significant. You see kids, for example, with high lead from environmental exposure, but it often is stored in the tissues. And so we give a drug called DMSA, 语法解析

23:30

which is an FDA-approved drug for chelation. That's a Greek word that means to claw, to bind some things. It binds the metals. And then we collect the urine. And we saw this kid was just, everything was just lit up. You know, arsenic, aluminum, mercury, lead. I just want to specify that one of the things you said is you had to use a different testing method. Yeah. Right? Because, of course, if there's something that's circulating in the blood that's going to cross the blood-brain barrier, that's going to go into the kidneys and hurt the nephrons, it's so dangerous to keep in the… 语法解析

23:58

the body will excrete it as fast as it can. If it can't excrete it fast enough, it wants to get it out of the blood. Yeah. It stores it in the tissues. So you do a blood level. Blood level is the wrong thing to do, right? If you're not looking at tissue levels, which is what… But tissue biopsies are not a non-invasive thing to do. But this is just important to be like, people could say, oh, this is nonsense. I've ran the labs and nobody has heavy metal. Well, are you running the right labs? A very important topic. And again, there's some theory under it. And one of the gold standard tests for lead, for example, is looking at 语法解析

24:26

and bone levels through various specialized types of imaging that are used in research. And that's what you should be looking at. It's sort of like the joke I always tell that, you know, this guy drops his keys on the street and he's looking for them on this light post and his friend's like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm looking for my keys. He said, where did you drop them? He's like, I dropped them down the street. He said, why are you looking here? He said, the lights that are here. And that's what we do in medicine. We tend to do testing 语法解析

24:49

that we have available, but not the right testing. And I even remember an article in the New England Journal of Medicine or JAMA was one of those, I was talking about like mercury and they said, when we check the blood, because that's the easiest thing to do. I'm like, well, that's not where you want to check, you know, to see what's really going on. And so these kids who were living at the cement plant were severely affected by these and by treating them and getting rid of the metals and decreasing their toxin burden, they were able to actually recover and do well. 语法解析

25:20

We've all been there. You're on the go, starving, and your only options are ultra-processed snacks made from GMO corn, hydrogenated oils, and sometimes even mold-contaminated meat. No thanks. That's why I always keep Paleo Valley's 100% grass-fed beef sticks on hand. These aren't your average meat sticks. They're made from grass-fed and finished beef raised on regenerative American farms using rotational grazing to restore soil health. They're fermented old-world style. 语法解析

25:47

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26:05

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26:25

You wouldn't drink dirty water, so why breathe unfiltered air? Indoor air can carry a wide range of invisible particles like mold, allergens, VOCs, smoke, and even airborne bacteria and viruses. And most of us are breathing it in all day without realizing it. That's why I use Air Doctor in my home. It's not just any air purifier. It's designed with ultra HEPA filtration to capture ultra fine particles, including many pollutants and allergens. It also features a smart sensor that monitors your indoor air quality and adjusts filtration automatically, all while staying whisper quiet. 语法解析

26:54

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27:21

So everybody or most people know the story of leaded gasoline, tetraethyl lead being added to gasoline. Most people don't know the story well. There's actually an exceptional video on this made by Veritasium, a YouTube channel online that describes the tetraethyl lead story. It was an additive for gasoline in the early phases of internal combustion engines that stopped engine knocking, as in not even absolutely crucial. 语法解析

27:49

heaps of other chemistries that could stop engine knocking, as obviously we know because we don't have lead anymore. The early studies that were done on tetraethyl lead, on toxicity, the people did get sick, including the researcher, and the results were hidden. So it wasn't that we couldn't have possibly known. It was we actually knew, hid it, and brought it out anyways because of the economic interest. 语法解析

28:09

And then to think about like what adding lead to gasoline means, which is you're aerosolizing it, right? You're not just putting it in the water or the soil. You're literally atomizing one of the most toxic chemicals that exists and 语法解析

28:22

putting it into the air at scale, right? So of course, even though it was already known toxic, that was hidden. And then the companies that were producing the tetraethyl lead fought really hard to keep it there and not ban it. And it only finally got banned after the preponderance of how much harm it was causing got proven decades later. The effects when you look back in just America are estimated at a billion points of IQ loss for Americans. Yeah. That's staggering. 语法解析

28:51

I just would like people to take in- Make America dumber. Yeah. A billion points of IQ loss for a population that was less than 300 million people is a lot of IQ loss. And then there were also studies on increased violence and aggravation that showed that populations that were heavily exposed had something like 4X the impulse control disorders. Impulse controls, school performance, cognitive deficits- 语法解析

29:15

Not to mention the bone issues, the osteoporosis, the cancer, everything else. But if we just look at even the psychocognitive elements because one of the – like again, one of the bullshit stories that is realpolitik is like – it goes back to the Hobbesian story. It's like humans are kind of dumb and nasty. 语法解析

29:32

That's why we need rule, right? Humans are kind of dumb and nasty. Well, empirically, we made humans dumber and nastier with just the aerosolizing lead. And you're like, who would the humans be if we hadn't done that? So then you say, okay, well, that's an old story because we got rid of lead. Well, no, those effects are enduring. Lead doesn't go away. It's in the soil still. It's still in most of the pipes. It's in the pipes, right? Right? That's Flint, Michigan. We still see it in water. That whole thing that happened in Flint, Michigan. But Albany's worse than Flint, Michigan. Yeah. Even though we supposedly banned- 语法解析

30:01

lead and gasoline. It's still used in prop planes. It's still used in certain military and farm equipment and other kinds of things. So we're still using it. It's supposedly banned around the world, but it's still used because not enforced in the third world pretty heavily. But then the levy that comes from mining, specifically mining affluent, 语法解析

30:18

There's a study I saw in 2019 that showed children under five lost 780 million IQ points just in 2019 just from lead. Well, it's interesting. It's not just that it affects your cognitive function. It affects everything. You know, there was a really pioneering study that I saw in American Journal of Cardiology where they – 语法解析

30:39

found that anybody with a lead level of over two, and by the way, the lead levels that they thought were harmful were 40 and over. Yeah. Then it was 20. Then it was 10. Now it's 10. But that was not based on proving that they weren't. That was based on lobbying from the company, from the industries that produced the lead that wanted to not have that much restriction. But still, the lead levels that quote normal is one to zero to 10, right? Right. And in this American Journal of Cardiology study, they found that 语法解析

31:07

Excuse me, I was saying the arguing for it being higher was the lobbying side. The proving the toxicity brought it lower, but it's still, as you're mentioning, one to 10. Yeah, still one to 10. So it's still pretty bad. And what they found was in terms of kids' cognitive function, it was a continuum from zero to 10 still caused a problem. It wasn't like you had no effect. So that's been well proven. But what was really interesting was the American Journal of Cardiology found that if your lead level was over two, 语法解析

31:36

two out of 10, which is 39% of the population of adults and kids. It was a bigger risk factor for stroke and heart attack than having abnormal cholesterol. 语法解析

31:49

Which nobody talks about. So you go to the cardiologist, they're not checking your lead levels. And even if they did, that's only one-fifth of the allowable level. Right. And what's really interesting is that there was this whole movement in the 70s and 80s for chelation therapy, which was thought to be quackery. And the NIH did a $30 million trial on 语法解析

32:08

called the TAG trial, where they used EDTA, IV, chelation. EDTA specifically removes lead. And they found that it was very actually effective in preventing heart disease and heart attacks. And yet, it's not part of standard medicine. - Lead increasing heart disease, use it more than cholesterol markers? - Mm-hmm. - Yeah. And how much do people hear about 语法解析

32:31

the safe, quote unquote, safe levels of lead compared to cholesterol when it comes to heart disease from the cardiologist, right? Nobody. 语法解析

32:39

But and again, we're not just saying within the safe range. We're saying not even close to the top of the range. Yeah. Someone would look at it and be like, oh, I'm near the bottom of the range. That's awesome. Except the range, you're like in evolutionary levels, it's not even the right scale because we're calling one to 10 is actually like one to a million in terms of what should be the right part per billion scale. I mean, there were moments in human history where there were volcanoes and there was exposures, but not much. In terms of like the famous topic people like to talk about right now of what caused the fall of the Roman Empire, there's a whole 语法解析

33:08

Lead pipes. Hypothesis about, well, lead was added to sugar to make a particular kind of sweetness and lead was actually added as a food additive and to alcohol plus the lead pipes plus the lead oils. Actually, I do love this story. I have a few patients who are wealthy and they get fine crystal or they have wine out of leaded crystal. I remember buying wine glasses once and I went to the store and I'm like, 语法解析

33:33

you know, these are $5 a piece and these are $50 a piece. I'm like, well, why is this $50 wine glass? He said, well, it's, you know, it's leaded crystal. I'm like, leaded crystal, why? He says, well, because the lead makes the wine taste sweeter. That's why kid eat paint chips, because it tastes sweet. I was like, wow. And then they have fancy glazed plates, which are from Italy or France, which is the glaze is full of lead. So you can get it in lots of different ways. The fact that in 2019, 语法解析

34:01

Children under five globally had 780 million points of IQ loss. That's like that should be up there in crimes against humanity as like whoever the fuck did this needs like the whole industry needs to be punished. Like because those kids lives are ruined, right? Like massively ruined forever. The civilization. 语法解析

34:20

that those kids run with less cognitive power as we're moving into an increasingly complex world. And the IQ is obviously just one thing. It's increased heart disease, increased cancer, increased osteoporosis, and increased impulse control disorders, aggression. Like there's psychiatric components. So sicker, dumber, and meaner 语法解析

34:40

And we're just talking about one compound. And you're right. I mean, you know, they looked at the children of the farm workers in California who were supposed to 语法解析

34:51

large amounts of pesticides and herbicides that the cohort of kids that they study lost 41 million IQ points just from exposure to pesticides. It was not just lead. So you add the pesticides up, you add the lead up, you add the mercury up, you add the, the, um, there's 350,000 chemicals that are in regular industrial use that are regulated, something like that. There's 280 million chemicals in the database of the American chemical society. And, um, 语法解析

35:18

We're talking about like things that were not part of our evolutionary environment are not part of the makeup. The thing that I think 语法解析

35:25

We have a way of talking about disease in medicine. I got cancer. I got heart disease. I got diabetes. I got Alzheimer's. You don't get it. It's not like a bug that you catch or a cold. It's a consequence of the environment in which we live. And that's sort of what you're talking about. Because a lot of populations look very old. I mean, the Plains Indians had the highest number of centenarians at the turn of the century of any population. They were hunter-gatherers. 语法解析

35:53

And so it wasn't like every hunter-gatherer died at 40. But the last, you know, 100 years, we've seen this sort of inversion of the life expectancy curve. It's kind of starting to dip down and we're starting to see a drop in life expectancy. So I think, you know, we're not taught that these things are fixable. But if you understand the underlying root cause model of medicine and understand how to identify the root causes and figure out also how to create a thriving human and provide those conditions, because right now, as you know, you sort of talk about this anthropogenic model 语法解析

36:22

disease, this really means we've created an environment in which disease flourishes. It's sort of a disease-causing culture, society, environment, food environment, toxin environment. When you kind of remove those things as best you can, these diseases can reverse. I had a guy who was living in Pittsburgh who was seven years old, and he, and I didn't know this, but Pittsburgh, you know, they have the steel plants, and they use coal to 语法解析

36:48

Yeah, it makes steel. And they use the coal ash to cover their fields and to, when there's snowy, icy roads, to put them on these snowy, icy roads. And coal ash is full of lead and mercury. And he was extremely mercury toxic and also had other issues. He had insulin resistance. He had… 语法解析

37:07

gut issues his whole life. So he had a lot of dysbiosis and gut inflammation. He had methylation issues, B vitamin problems. We had a whole series of things. It wasn't just one thing, but you add all that together. Plus his ApoE double four status, which puts him at risk. And he was presenting with Alzheimer's. 语法解析

37:25

And yet by a very aggressive detoxification program, by getting the metals out of his system, by chelation, which is heresy in medicine, by giving him methylating support, optimizing his gut function, fixing his insulin resistance, he reversed his cognitive decline and he was actually able to 语法解析

37:44

improve his mental status and go back to work, which was, again, something you just never see. I mean, who's seen a survivor of Alzheimer's? Well, I know that you have for a long time known Dale Bredesen and his work in the space. And I think you are friends with someone, I'm good friends with Dr. Heather Sandison, who wrote the book recently, Reversing Alzheimer's. And I think that was a number one 语法解析

38:04

you know, New York Times bestseller for a while. And that particular study that she did there was an inpatient using a Bredesen-like protocol. Yeah. That was… 语法解析

38:14

reversing the MOCA scores in 70% of the people that went in within six months with pretty basic stuff, like largely diet, lifestyle, and a little bit of functional medicine. And the MOCA score is a sort of a cognitive assessment that's easy to do, and it's pretty predictive of where you are on the trajectory of memory loss and dementia. Now, this is another one, if you look at Alzheimer's historically versus now, that is really a disease of modernity. Do 语法解析

38:37

Do you want to say anything about it? Alzheimer's did diagnosis way back when in the turn of the century with, you know, 语法解析

38:43

this patient he had. But the rise in dementia is staggering and it's one of the most costly conditions for humanity, not because of the direct medical care, but because of the long-term care that they need and because of the loss of the ability to work for their caregivers, their family members. I've seen a dramatic increase in dementia and cognitive decline and it's sort of paralleled the rest of the chronic diseases that we're seeing increasing. And people say, oh, we're winning the war on heart disease. Nonsense. We're seeing… 语法解析

39:12

deaths because we have better advanced medical treatments like bypasses and stents and trauma, last trauma lytics and blood 语法解析

39:20

blood clot dissolvers, but we are seeing more and more people getting heart disease, more and more people getting cancer, more and more people getting diabetes, more and more people getting dementia. So despite the fact that we're spending trillions of dollars on healthcare, we're not getting much for our money. And this is kind of shocking to me. This is why people need to understand statistical warfare as part of information warfare is that you can cherry pick your stats, right? And you can lie with facts, right? 语法解析

39:45

You can mislead with facts. You can say less people are dying and what you're alluding to is the issue is getting better as opposed to there was even one case in which the stats were used that less people were dying of gun violence and they were suggesting in that the gun violence went down, gun violence went up, just emergency care so people didn't die after being shot. That's right. So it's entirely possible just to speak to the larger political environment and this is a bipartisan kind of universal marketing driven issue is 语法解析

40:13

people who are pushing a narrative at scale usually have a motive to push the narrative. A political motive, a capital motive, or something, right? And… 语法解析

40:23

So you can take the whole story, just take parts of it, and you can have facts that make it through the most rigorous fact checker that are true, but are still misleading. Well, what Mark Twain said, he said, there's liars, there's damn liars, and there's statisticians. Yes. As you're mentioning, winning the war on heart disease, what you're actually seeing is the rates of heart disease are increasing. And so this is like this mortality morbidity trade-off, right? Which is, 语法解析

40:50

Oh, no, where people are living longer. And recently there's been a downturn in living longer. But like that kind of doesn't matter if the latter part of their life is on polypharmacy, is on a huge amount of meds with decreasing quality of life and only being kept alive for 语法解析

41:06

kind of artificially. Like if someone gets off their meds, they die. That's kind of like they're on life support, which speaks to quality of life. I think a lot of people don't understand the mortality morbidity trade-off and that the stats that are cherry picked to say longevity is going up or heart disease is going down, what it's not indicating. Is there more on that you would say? 语法解析

41:27

Yeah, I mean, I think we're losing the battle on disease. We're spending more and more. I mean, we spend twice that of any other nation, often three, four, five times as much. We're 48th in life expectancy and going down. A lot of our statistics are worse than most other countries. That's just, it's worth saying again. 48th in life expectancy. 48th, I think we're going down. It's getting worse. And that's crazy. With a $5 trillion a year healthcare budget. Yeah, we're, I think, 30th among… 语法解析

41:56

the top developed nations in healthcare metrics like infant mortality. And, you know, we're, we're spending huge amounts. I think 40% of people who are over 65 take five or more medications a day, 20% take 10 or more medications. I think some of which are for the side effects of the other meds. Yeah. Yeah. You know, 81% of Americans are in at least one medication. So is this making us healthier? Yeah. 语法解析

42:23

I don't think so. I mean, it's mitigating symptoms sometimes. Maybe it addresses issues sometimes. But we know that our health care system itself is the third leading cause of death through 语法解析

42:36

Prescribe drugs given for the right reason at the right dose for the right patient, not mistakes. Medical errors is another huge category. But I mean… Let's put those together because when Ralph Nader was kind of popularizing this topic, some of the issues have gotten better on iatrogenesis. But if you take iatrogenesis to mean diseases that come from interaction with the healthcare system writ large, the broadest definition, so then it includes… 语法解析

43:02

As you mentioned, prescriptions that are rightly given, prescriptions that are wrongly given in allergic reactions to meds and drug interactions and whatever, surgeries, infections you get well in the hospital, et cetera. If you add those up, many people add those up and it's the number one cause of death of Americans in the country. Basically, we shut down all the doctors and hospitals, got rid of all the drugs, we do better. Yeah. 语法解析

43:24

We're not saying that because of course we don't want to do statistical warfare because they're also saving lives. Yeah, for sure. Right? But we can say, damn, we should be able to do better on that side. And we can, right? Like you have plenty of clinical cases where you're saving more lives and causing much less iatrogenesis. And it actually costs less money when you factor all the matriculated things. Obviously, absence of acute symptomology does not equal a good definition of health because we all know cases where… 语法解析

43:51

Someone went to the doctor for a routine checkup and they find out that they have cancer and not that long to live and that cancer has been developing for a long time. And as you're mentioning with prediabetes, a long time before the acute diagnosis of now you have diabetes and you have to take a med for it, you were in metabolic syndrome and a long time before 语法解析

44:06

the autoimmune disease that produces enough symptomology, you had inflammatory markers that you could see. How many years ahead can you see signs of- Decades. Exactly. Decades. Now, if you see it decades ahead and you haven't had a humongous amount of tissue damage, you can do stuff about it. By the time you've got to advance tissue damage, it's a lot harder. 语法解析

44:23

Yeah. Right. You can still do stuff about it, which is amazing. And, you know, your clinic will attest to that. But I mean, in med school, there's this stages of disease, which is you start with health is all the homeostatic systems and homeostasis is kind of a silly term because it's not stasis, right? So homeodynamics. Yeah. 语法解析

44:41

So you have all these homeodynamic systems in the body that are responding to various stressors and the level they're at matters less than their responsive capacity, right? You want to be able to respond to hot and cold and to pathogens and whatever well. So you've got 语法解析

44:55

homeostasis or homeodynamics, then you've got deviation from homeodynamics. Something comes that takes you out of range and you don't respond properly. What is that something, right? We'll get back to that. If that doesn't come back into range, if it comes back, great, you're still healthy. If it doesn't come back in, then you have pathophysiology, right? The physiology is operating differently as a result of that. If you keep operating differently for a long time, you'll start to get pathomorphology. The 语法解析

45:21

And oftentimes it's not until after that that the symptoms occur. And that's when you go and you get the diagnosis. And you've been in a very advanced development of illness that whole time. So obviously you don't want to wait till symptoms. And most people are walking around with a lot of symptoms, which means actually pretty advanced disease relative to what good health would be. 语法解析

45:38

And so obviously the an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure thing. - I did a podcast recently with someone who's studying this compound that comes from pomegranates and walnuts and berries called elagitanins that gets converted in the gut through the microbiome to a compound called urolithin A that helps recycle old mitochondria. And there's not very many things to do that. So maybe we've kind of evolved with these plants to help us do our body's work. 语法解析

46:04

And then there's the right balance of hormones. There can be hormonal deficiency. There can be deficiencies of light and circadian rhythm and clean water and clean air, which are all things we need. And movement, exercise, rest. So it could be like parasympathetic activities, like meditation that restores our nervous system's function. Sleep, adequate sleep. 语法解析

46:30

connection, love, meaning, purpose. These are all belonging. These are all things that we need. And even something as obvious as belonging, if you're lonely… 语法解析

46:41

It's like smoking two packets of cigarettes a day in terms of your risk. So you kind of go through that whole list and you can kind of see where people are. And some of those things are just a consequence of our modern world, like the increasing isolation, lack of connections, lack of belonging, lack of being part of a tribe. And it maybe is why we see such an increase in tribalism and divisiveness in society because people are wanting to be part of something even if it's bad. 语法解析

47:01

Like a gang, right? Or it could be AA or it could be Weight Watchers. It's all still a club. So I think we have this kind of interesting moment where we're starting to kind of map out what these things are that impair human resilience and function. And that's really why we call it functional medicine. I think everything you're saying is kind of… 语法解析

47:20

intuitive if someone is not excessively indoctrinated in an alternate thought process and makes sense, but I want to formalize it a little bit. The first thing is that you're mentioning disease having many causes, and that's in distinction to the idea that it has no cause. It's just whatever we don't understand. It's random acts of the universe. Yes. Or single cause, right? In which a 语法解析

47:41

Single molecule for a single molecular target would make sense. Yeah, you eat saturated fat you get high LDL cholesterol You get heart disease ain't that simple complex causation versus simple causation is a major part of the story right and simple causation is usually immediate right you're exposed to something a pathogen a poison you're starving and a disease that correlates to it exactly starts to happen immediately and 语法解析

48:06

delayed causation, as you mentioned, certain diseases, you can find early signs that we're moving in that direction in utero, or even the predispositions in the mother's body that are going to affect the developmental environment of the baby. So acute versus kind of chronic is a major part that we want to make a distinction. The other is single cause versus multifactorial, because you're mentioning this person's dementia was 语法解析

48:29

a whole suite of toxins, lead and mercury and whatever, and a whole suite of deficiencies and a whole suite of maybe subclinical infections. 语法解析

48:38

And maybe behavioral patterns and maybe psychological patterns. I'd be very curious of what you think about this because the entire medical research paradigm has been set up for drug discovery. It's the randomized double blind. I want to go there. I want to get to reductionist medicine. But before we go there, you already explained kind of subacute toxicity, but subacute infection you didn't get into yet. Most people are like dysentery is very obvious. But there are things where there is a chronic GI infection. Yeah. 语法解析

49:03

that isn't dysentery. Can you talk about that for a little bit? - Yeah, I think we think of infections as something that come and go. But the truth is, and AIDS, I grew up in the era of AIDS. I went to medical school in that era. I did residency at UCSF, which was the epicenter of the AIDS epidemic with the gay community there. And it was the number one admitting diagnosis to the hospital where I trained in my residency. Nobody died of HIV infection. 语法解析

49:32

People died of all the other bugs that happen to live in us and on us that get unleashed when your immune system isn't working. So whether it's pneumocystis… 语法解析

49:42

infection of your lungs or cytomegalovirus, which is a common virus that we all carry. People have herpes. People know this, right? You have herpes and you get a cold sore when it's– - People know it for oral herpes or genital herpes, but they don't know there are more kinds of herpes. - No, there's a lot of kinds of herpes. CMV is herpes, Epstein-Barr is herpes. There's just herpes, the whole family of viruses. But people know, oh, I have herpes, which means when I'm stressed or when it's cold out or when I'm tired or when I get a cold, I get a cold sore. 语法解析

50:10

People understand that there's this latent infection in their body, but there's so many of those and they're often hidden and they're latent and they're maybe marginally symptomatic or not symptomatic. Even tick infections can cause all sorts of issues and be latent and then they emerge. Or even with COVID, we're now seeing replicating 语法解析

50:36

COVID viruses in people who've recovered months or years later in their bodies that are producing ongoing effects that lead to long COVID and persistent disease. So just so people have a sense, what percentage of people have CMV? What percentage of people have Epstein-Barr? What percentage of people have some strains of HPV that are part of pathogenic predisposition? Good. 语法解析

50:57

It's a lot. I mean, I would say everybody's walking around with something, probably. If you look, most people have some Epstein-Barr that's kind of hanging around that can emerge and be problematic. Probably half the population has CMB. It's a lot of people. There was a study I found interesting that was looking at removed prostate cancers that were removed for cancer and that were biopsied and doing virome assessment on it. 语法解析

51:22

and found that the combination of EBV and HPV was present in the vast majority of them. And so that's not one or the other. It was actually the combination. And obviously we know HPV causing cervical cancer, causing throat cancer. That's kind of new though, right? That people really understand that. And H. pylori causing stomach cancer. And obviously like EBV causing chronic fatigue, but it's 语法解析

51:49

pretty reductionist to say EBV causes chronic fatigue. There are people who have EBV who get other diseases, MS or something. There are people who have EBV who never get chronic fatigue. And there are people who have chronic fatigue who have a load of other viruses or pathogens that aren't EBV. - Yeah, we talk about like the infections can cause a myriad of problems. Like herpes can lead to increased risk for Alzheimer's, which doesn't just call the cold sore, but maybe something more serious. 语法解析

52:12

And that doesn't mean all Alzheimer's is caused by bacteria. But, you know, look at Rudy Tanzi's work, who's an Alzheimer's researcher, and he talks about how they do brain bops. These are finding all these bugs in the brain from the microbiome, from viruses, from other bacteria that may be causing an irritation that leads to the deposition of the amyloid plaque that 语法解析

52:35

Everybody sees on the microscope but is only a secondary response to some other triggering factor that if you dealt with that triggering factor You might not actually get Alzheimer's So this is something that Rudy ten sees work is good at Bredesen's work is good at is Alzheimer's isn't one disease Yeah, right as some people have described it as type 2 diabetes of the brain Some people as rheumatoid arthritis of the brain some people as infection of the brain. These are all true. Yeah, and 语法解析

53:01

different times, which means different treatments. So if you hear that somebody has rheumatoid arthritis or MS or Alzheimer's, you don't instantly know what you're going to do. No, I don't. I know there's a group of things I'm going to look at. I'm going to look at things that piss off the immune system. Toxins, allergens, microbes, stress, poor diet, all the 语法解析

53:21

deficiencies of certain things like vitamin D we know is increasing risk for MS because it's important in neurologic function and immune function. So, you know, I think we kind of have to come to terms with this framework of multifactorial causes and multimodal treatments and 语法解析

53:40

We just have failed to be imaginative in how we do research. I think you're saying two things at once that are important. One is the disease doesn't have one cause. But you're saying think about causal stuff. 语法解析

53:54

but the disease doesn't have one cause. So it could seem overwhelming, like what, it's just all these things. - Rather than just labeling disease and then treating the label with a drug, we call it the name it, blame it, and tame it system. We name the disease, then we blame the name for the problem, then we tame it with the drug. So we say, oh, you're hopeless and helpless and sad and depressed, and I know what's wrong with you. You have depression. Well, no, that's just the name we give to people who share those symptoms. It's not the cause of those symptoms. It could be a myriad of things, from what you're eating, your microbiome, from nutritional deficiencies like vitamin D, 语法解析

54:23

or excess of toxins like heavy metals or mercury or gluten that create a plain inflammation. So there's a lot of reasons why you can have any particular disease. And we just, we have it all wrong. And I think it's a real shift. It's a real shift in thinking. So medicine, uh, 语法解析

54:39

needs to move from this name it and blame it process to what we call thinking and linking, where we start the thinking process once we make the diagnosis. We start to try to create an understanding of what are the patterns in the data, what are the story that's being told, 语法解析

54:53

Take a deeper diagnostic history. How do you do deeper diagnostic laboratory testing and work to kind of see what's at the root cause of everything? And by peeling back that layer, you can start to see emerge a picture of a chronic disease epidemic that it is rooted in things that are caused by 语法解析

55:11

I would say man. And I think that's something in a way is good news because it means we can have agency over it. It's not something that just falls from the sky that hits us on the head that we get struck with some illness. It's actually now something we understand what it's about. Yeah. 语法解析

55:25

It's not just better diagnosis. Trust me, like the autism epidemic is an example. We went from one in 10,000 when I was born to one in 130, even if 50% is better diagnostic or 75% is better diagnostic criteria, still something's going on. I think it's worth just going into this a little bit because vitamin D deficiency in terms of acute causation is rickets and not many people have rickets. 语法解析

55:47

but there's a pretty big level between you have rickets and you have optimal levels. And the same is true for vitamin C and scurvy or beriberi or whatever. The idea that deficiency means you don't have an acute deficiency 语法解析

56:00

Disease that is killing you in a fast way from it But then as soon as you're above that we're fine as opposed to what are optimal levels Would you speak to that a little bit in terms of also what you find in your practice and what you find when you? Take someone above rickets treat them and treat them and they get back I think this is just a really important idea that medicine is trying to catch up with you know We used to talk about having type 2 diabetes and then we said wait wait, there's pre-diabetes 语法解析

56:26

And then we talked about having hypertension or high blood pressure. Now there's pre-hypertension. And we say, oh, you have an autoimmune disease. Oh, now there's pre-autoimmune disease. And the reason it's pre-anything is because we're understanding there's consequences even at levels we thought were, quote, normal. And so this idea of disease being an on or off phenomena is wrong. It's a continuum from mild biochemical imbalances, which are barely detectable, 语法解析

56:54

which we might be able to now screen for with metabolomic testing and proteomic testing and more subtle things that we can measure to sort of pre-symptomatic to symptomatic disease symptoms to finally full-blown disease and death. And so there's a whole long continuum that can start 语法解析

57:13

in utero or even, you know, with your mother's health before she was born that impacts your health through epigenetics and through the intrauterine experience and through early childhood influences and all those things you can start to map out if you listen carefully to somebody's story about what's happening early and pick these things up. And so, you know, the fact that we have these sort of arbitrary cutoffs for, you know, blood sugar, blood pressure, vitamin D, you know, full 语法解析

57:38

folic acid, I mean, Function Health, which is a company I talked to you about that allows people access to comprehensive lab testing and have their own personal health data set. You know, the reference ranges there are ridiculous for some of the things that they have, like homocysteine, which is a measure of your B vitamin status, very important in methylation and genetic control, neurotransmitter function, detoxification, mood. I mean, a lot of things. Their cutoff level is like, I think, 15 or 16 or something. Yeah. 语法解析

58:04

And any level over 14, according to the literature, increase your risk of dementia by 50%. The optimal level should be six to eight. Same thing with insulin. I think we see insulin levels being reported as normal anything up to 16 or 18. That's because we have a sick population. And the way we determine what's quote normal is basically on a bell curve in a population. So if the bell curve is shifted to the right or the left because people are sick, 语法解析

58:32

You're picking up what's normal in the population, not what's optimal. Because you know the name of the disease, it doesn't mean you know what's wrong with that person. And the name of the disease… 语法解析

58:41

that person might be missing some of the symptoms that usually go. They might be missing some of the biomarkers. They might have other biomarkers. They might have other symptoms. We just said there's enough of a cluster to meet the diagnostic threshold for insurance to cover it. That's right. But this person, this unique person who we say has rheumatoid arthritis and this other person we say has rheumatoid arthritis don't have the same presentation. They don't have the same medical history, but they don't have the same presentation, right? You run enough labs, they have totally different stuff going on in their blood. And they have different symptomology. Right. 语法解析

59:09

So what does rheumatoid arthritis mean? Yeah, it's just the name we give to a group of people who share certain criteria that have been established that create the diagnosis based on symptoms, morning stiffness, certain joint pattern of inflammation, certain lab tests. 语法解析

59:27

But it doesn't tell you anything about why. It could be an entomoeval histolytic, a parasite that causes it, or it could be gluten that causes it. But it's almost never one of those, right? Right. No, it's usually not, right? It's usually not. You know, we were just chatting earlier before the podcast, and I remember this book I read when I was in college. 语法解析

59:43

by Ivan Illich called Medical Nemesis. And it really influenced me because it talked about the failure of our healthcare system back then and talked about this idea of iatros, which means physician, and genesis means origin. So the origin of disease being caused by the physician. That's something that I think is sort of underappreciated by most people. 语法解析

01:00:03

Doctors don't intentionally cause people to be ill. They're not bad people. They're well-intentioned. They're trying the right thing, but they're trained in the wrong paradigm. This is not actually a critique of doctors. It's not even a critique of hospitals. It's a critique of some systemic mistakes that affect what the doctors are even allowed to do. Sometimes the doctors are really upset about it, and it affects how the doctors are trained. 语法解析

01:00:22

And so where the critiques we're giving are systemic. - Even pretty late stage things like heart failure and Alzheimer's and autism and type 2 diabetes. - Just so we can wrap it together, I know you have another place, but tell like a couple stories about that of things that people used to think were totally unreversible and most people still do. - I mean in medical school and throughout my medical training and even continuing medical education and postgraduate training where you had to go CME courses, 语法解析

01:00:48

The orthodoxy is pretty rigid about certain beliefs. If you have heart failure, it doesn't go backwards. You can't improve it. If you have dementia, you can't reverse it. If you have type 2 diabetes, it's not reversible. You can manage chronic diseases, which is great for the medical industrial complex because it provides the ability to 语法解析

01:01:08

have a pharmaceutically driven healthcare system that makes huge amounts of profit off of long-term chronic use of medication. What I've seen is, surprisingly, when you apply these principles of creating health, which is what functional medicine is, it's not about treating disease, it's trying to understand what is health, what are the deviations from health, and how do we measure those dysfunctions and the lack of resilience and balance and function in the body, 语法解析

01:01:32

and kind of tweak things to correct it, you can actually see reversal of these diseases. Complete remission and reversal of type 2 diabetes. That's easy. That's an easy one. And there's now, that's sort of– - But that's a humongous deal because like what is the curve of type 2 diabetes from when you were born to now? How many upstream diseases does that contribute to? And how many people, how many doctors treat it like it's reversible? - It's the thing that's causing everything. So the phenomenon of insulin resistance which underlies type 2 diabetes, 语法解析

01:02:01

is causing dementia. For example, your risk of dementia is four times higher if you have type 2 diabetes. Your risk of heart attacks is dramatically higher. Your risk of cancers, many of the most common cancers, breast, pancreatic, ovarian cancer, colon cancer, pancreatic cancer, 语法解析

01:02:15

These are diseases of insulin resistance. - And to say all those diseases are largely, not perfectly, but largely preventable with some pretty basic stuff, and oftentimes even reversible, is a really important thing everybody should know and start to update on. - Yeah, I mean they're even taking some, I mean I've talked to Siddhartha Mukherjee about this, they're doing stage four pancreatic cancer using ketogenic diets and seeing remissions in some of these patients, which is almost like heresy in medicine. For medicine, 语法解析

01:02:43

There are no laws. You say, well, evolution, that's a kind of a law. Okay, well, that's one. But how does that apply to human health? What are the laws of biology when it comes to human health? Medicine really hasn't described those. Pierre Laplace, who was an incredible scientist 语法解析

01:02:58

scientists back in the, I don't know, 17th century. He had Laplace's law and all that was a law of physics. But he talked about how you can have a great number of observed phenomena from a small number of general laws. And medicine has failed to produce those laws. So instead of having like a few principles that explain everything, 语法解析

01:03:18

we get more and more granular about the diseases we describe. For example, the diagnostic manual for diseases is called ICD-10, the International Classification of Disease, Volume 10 or Version 10. 语法解析

01:03:30

And there's 155,000 diseases. It's gone up from 12,000. You used to have things there like Visitation from God, we got rid of those. But it's basically descriptive. It's phenomenological. It's based on symptoms, not on our understanding of the disease or the pathogenesis of the disease. And so functional medicine, I think, is the first attempt to create a set of principles, of laws. And the equals MC squared, 语法解析

01:03:56

that explains what you're asking, which is what is anthropogenic disease? Are you suffering from exposure to much of something that your body doesn't like, that it doesn't agree with you? Or are you lacking certain things that your body needs to thrive and be resilient? 语法解析

01:04:11

And so for me, being a functional medicine doctor is just a detective work for figuring out what you have too much of or too little of. And it's not just one thing. It's often many things. So you can't just treat one thing, which is what we learned in medical school, just Occam's razor, just single disease, single drug. That's the best practice of medicine. That's your gold standard. That's what you should shoot for. And that's just unfortunately not how the body works. It's a complex dynamic system and it's infinitely unknowable. But you can, you can, 语法解析

01:04:41

actually determine from these basic laws and principles how to treat disease, even if you've never seen it before. In The Fabric of Reality by David Deutsch, he talks about this idea that following these basic principles, you can treat diseases and be successful, even if you've never seen them. So often people say, well, have you treated this? Have you treated that? Have you fixed this or that? I'm like, 语法解析

01:05:02

Maybe not. I've seen that. I've never seen it, but I know what to do. I know how to get to the bottom of this problem. And so my job is to go through that list and it's a really short list and maybe you can add to it, but you know, it's toxins and these can be environmental toxins, all the petrochemical based toxins like the forever chemicals or pesticides, phthalates, PCBs, dioxin, flame retardants, the list goes on. It could be elemental toxins like heavy metals, mercury, lead, arsenic, cadmium, and they're buried in the earth and we've kind of excavated them and 语法解析

01:05:32

industrialized different processes that liberate these things, like coal burning is a great one. They can be biological toxins, right? If your liver or kidneys aren't working, you're going to be pretty sick and die pretty quick. I mean… 语法解析

01:05:46

And then there's allergens, which can be both environmental allergens, food allergens. Toxins can also be things like mycotoxins and mold toxins, which I put in that category, although it can also be an allergen. So it's one of the things to cross over. In that allergen category, it can be sensitivities or imbalance, like things that you might not think of as a true allergy, like a 语法解析

01:06:09

we'll call it an IgE allergy, which would be a food sensitivity, which is like gluten, for example. And then there's microbes. So it could be infections that are persistent, like COVID or Epstein-Barr or CMV, which kind of burden your immune system and lead to all kinds of symptoms. Or it could be a more… 语法解析

01:06:25

subclinical, but, but debilitating conditions like tick infections, or it could be an acute infection. And like, you know, I had an abscess recently in my back that was an acute infection that almost killed me. So it can be micro, it can be microbiome. So imbalances or dysfunction in your microbiome, which is we're all suffering from in modern society as a core driver of disease. And it can be a stress as a physical stress, uh, or psychological stress. 语法解析

01:06:48

and that creates physiological change in your body or it can be a poor diet. This nutrient deficiency that is part of the detox processes compounds on that. So the key is you get a compounding effect of a lot of things that are, some of them happened a year ago, 语法解析

01:07:05

The thing that might have caused it seemed to have caused it was actually just a trigger. It was the last step of a causal cascade that took somebody over the threshold. Yeah, the straw that broke the camel's back. Yeah. So I think these concepts of delayed causation as opposed to immediate causation, multifactorial as opposed to single factor, subacute issues, things that cause no symptomology immediately but are part of a compounding effect, 语法解析

01:07:28

also unique patho-ideology, right? That two people's MS or two people's rheumatoid arthritis are not the same disease. Not the same, yeah. And as opposed to… 语法解析

01:07:39

One cause it creates many diseases like mercury or gluten and you can create have one disease. It has many causes Yes, I think just maybe speak to that a tiny bit more in terms of when people think cause and effect There is a reductionist thing where they think billiard ball one thing caused one effect immediately and yet when you're talking about a complex organizational system where 语法解析

01:08:02

you know, a circuit board or a computer or a car, you can take a part out, put another part back in, upgrade it. It didn't grow. It's not self-organizing. It was built. And we apply that methodology from clocks to computers to something that grew and self-organized where each, there's no such thing as a long outside of a body. Mm-hmm. 语法解析

01:08:21

or a liver outside of a body, right? So when you try to separate gastroenterology and oncology and neurology, you get still a bunch of diseases that make no sense. Yeah, it is. It's such a failure of imagination and thinking that we have these specialties in medicine and we divided up the body into these organs and parts, which is still how we teach medical students. I mean, my daughter just finished medical school and it's just so antiquated. 语法解析

01:08:46

And, you know, there's emerging from the scientific community, not necessarily the medical community, but I would say the scientific community, this emerging paradigm of multi-causality and multi-modal treatments. In other words, there's multifactorial causes, many causes for any condition, and there's multi-modal treatments that are needed, not just one thing. And the body is seen to be a network of 语法解析

01:09:12

and a web where everything is inextricably tied to everything else and you can't separate all these things out, but you can start to understand how they influence each other and are dynamically acting together to create dysfunction in the body and disease. You know, you were mentioning what does it mean in another podcast to eat not ultra-hybridized 语法解析

01:09:29

What's the term? Ultra processed foods. Ultra processed food, yeah. One of the people who I got to study with when I was young that influenced me the most was Dr. Everett Salumis, Healing for Everyone. I don't know if you ever came across. He was one of the other early naturopaths, Dr. Christopher and those guys. My family had actually had some quote unquote incurable illnesses that got help through alternative processes that kind of got us in that path. 语法解析

01:09:53

And we actually got to go live with that guy, Dr. Loomis, on his healing clinic when I was a kid. And I got to see people coming in in wheelchairs and leaving non-wheelchairs and just having really radical kind of change. And it was very old school. It was kind of Ann Wigmore-like stuff. But it was real interesting to hear. He was also a medical doctor, but he was 85 by the time I met him. And he had boiled it down to a very simple thing. And he's like, number one principle of nutrition is eat as close to the 语法解析

01:10:23

living ecosystem as you can. Number two is pay subtle attention to how the foods feel in your body. Everything else, whatever. Like nightshades and ratios of macronutrients and whatever. Yeah, I agree. So he had these gardens, these kind of huge gardens and orchards, and he told people, go pick the food you feel called to and eat it right there. Don't even just stand outside with your feet in the dirt and eat it. And that's it. That's your diet while you're here. It's an inpatient thing. 语法解析

01:10:55

And it was amazing how much people got better if the only food they could eat was standing by the tree or the plant that they picked it off of while they ate it. And of course, he emphasized heirloom species and good soil and no pesticides or herbicides. Well, you know, there's a guy who kind of looks like you a little bit with the beard. His name's Fred Provenza. He's someone I got to know recently who's a professor for years at Utah State University and studied rangeland ecology and the relationship between plants and 语法解析

01:11:24

and the soil and animals and humans. And basically he wrote a book called Nourishment, What Animals Can Teach Us About Rediscovering Our Nutritional Wisdom. And he basically said that animals intuitively know what to eat when to keep themselves healthy. So they forage on some major food crops, but then they'll forage if they're left with their own devices and there's enough variety of wild plants around on different plants that have different medicinal properties or different nutrients. 语法解析

01:11:52

And in the book, he talked about this study that was done, I think, in the 20s in an orphanage in Canada where they took kids who really hadn't been exposed to a lot of whatever, junk food or American diet, and they gave them weird stuff like brain and organs and all kinds of weird food that we wouldn't think would be things we'd want to eat or that kids would want to eat. And these kids actually were eating completely 语法解析

01:12:17

completely in harmony with what their bodies needed and seeking out those foods and nutrients and the food that they needed and were far healthier than kids were control group that were fed a regular diet. And I was like, that's fascinating that humans have lost their ability to understand their 语法解析

01:12:33

some nutritional wisdom and to understand how things affect us. - I mean, I wanna add one thing and then we'll do good notes to leave on. You know what a racket is, right? Like a protection racket. - Yeah, racketeer. - Let's say I've got a protection racket where I'm the mob and you're doing business in my turf. So I have some guys go rough you up and then you're scared of those guys. 语法解析

01:12:52

And there's not enough law enforcement here. Then I have some other guys say, hey, we can protect you, but you're going to have to pay us a certain amount every week. Right. But they're from the same group. That's a racket. Right. Which is you're manufacturing the demand and then offering the supply. If you make a food system that creates addiction to the people need to keep getting more of it, but then it also makes them need medicine that they wouldn't need otherwise that is profitable or the side effects of the medicine make them need other medicines. That's a systemic racket. 语法解析

01:13:17

It is a racket, for sure. It's like Bayer. They bought Monsanto, which makes glyphosate, which causes lymphoma, and then they make the drugs to treat the lymphoma. That's a racket. So that's a direct racket if it's the same company. If they're separate companies that are just all owned by the major private equity or whatever, it's a systemic racket. Think about just from a logical perspective, I'm trying to solve a problem. First thing I want to ask is, did we always have that problem? No, no, no, it's a new problem. Oh, when we didn't have it, what was happening then? Let's reverse something. 语法解析

01:13:45

The first thing should be, if it's a new problem that was caused by something, reverse the cause. How often in medicine do we do that? 语法解析

01:13:52

Anything that looks like a racket should be investigated. Anything that looks like, oh, there's a problem, let's not look at what the root causes were. Let's not look at when we didn't have it. Let's say that we got this problem forever now and we can't possibly not have it when we didn't have it for most of human history. Then let's come up with a new thing that we can make money on that will then itself cause new problems that we will also cause a new solution for that will cause new problems. That is a systemic, exponentially escalating racket. 语法解析

01:14:18

This is not a good method of problem solving. This is solving problems in a way that doesn't solve the cause, that symptomatically addresses it and makes worse problems in the process. Let's start actually trying to solve problems. What is the cause? How do we undo the cause? And how do we get people incentivized to do that? Because right now everything is flipped. Everyone is actually incentivized if they pay attention to, we're talking about your own health. Yeah, that's abstract. I mean, like the guy who's running Coca-Cola or Bear is not necessarily thinking about these things. 语法解析

01:14:47

I remember talking to someone who's the CEO of Pepsi once, and they said they were thinking about categorizing it as an entertainment company because they're like, we know this is not food. This is something people do for fun. And it was like, Jesus, what good does this thing do? Well, it causes diabetes and increases likelihood for Alzheimer's in everybody. But what real good does it do? Well, it causes addiction. The world would be better if that company didn't exist. Any company where the world would be better if it didn't exist, we should figure out how to have it not exist. Yeah. 语法解析

01:15:16

The number of companies that fit in that category are high. Yeah, that's a problem. Now, derealization. Derealization is this very serious thing that happens when someone goes through a severe trauma where like nothing feels real. I would say almost everybody I know is in some degree of derealization because, and here's how I can tell. If I tell somebody something about 语法解析

01:15:38

It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's about health care or whether it's about the increasing likelihood towards World War III or AI. It doesn't matter what it is, the environment. Their tomorrow will be identical. They cannot be moved by real information about the real world they're in. They are derealized. The real world does not matter to them. 语法解析

01:15:55

And they're like, no new information could change my life. Well, you're being a doomer. Wait, no, the Mongols are coming. If the Mongols are coming, do you want to know? Oh, I can't do anything. Did you try? Most people don't. They're just so- So I want to just say, let's break the fuck out of ubiquitous derealization and learned helplessness and say problems that didn't used to exist that we caused, we can solve. Your own health and your parents and your children are an incentive. Yeah. 语法解析

01:16:19

But you just have to act like reality is real and reality matters and your life matters. As opposed to the nihilism of like, I can't do anything. I've already given up on my life mattering. It's hard. And the problem is that so many people are not just derealized because of the trauma, the psychological trauma of our society, but also the way in which our diet and lifestyle and environment affects our cognitive function and brain and mood. So 语法解析

01:16:44

It's sort of a double problem because you're sort of stuck. If you look at the American Revolution and the condition of the people who were involved in the American Revolution, one, they were doing labor jobs. Using a pitchfork all day translates to a much hardier body that can do rebellion and whatever. 语法解析

01:17:01

But also, they weren't obese, they weren't on opiates and benzos, and they didn't doom scroll. I have found that I don't care how outraged someone is or how horrified or how depressed, that emotion will not make it through 15 minutes of doom scrolling. They will actually forget they ever heard the thing. They'll forget all the emotion because in that 15 minutes, I see something that makes me excited and something that makes me feel left out and something that makes me feel belonging and something that makes me horny and something that makes me scared and something that makes me outraged and then something that's kind of funny. 语法解析

01:17:30

And I just flushed my entire system of continuity. Now I can go back to my life exactly the way it was. A small number of people ensure that they don't do that so they can actually work on controlling things at scale. Yeah. And everybody else lets them. Well, how do we have more agency? That's it. That's what you're talking about is creating a society where there are people feel agency and that they're… 语法解析

01:17:50

actions, that their thoughts, that their voice matters. So find all the things that damage your agency and get them out of your life. Take the social media apps off your phone. Even if you're going to still have it, have to do it on the computer. Don't have it in your goddamn pocket all the time. Just take them off your phone. If you're on psych meds, go to a Cleveland clinic. Go to an integrative doc who can see if maybe there's a better solution for you. 语法解析

01:18:12

I'm not telling people get off their psych meds. I'm saying go talk to a doctor. There's ways to do it. Talk to someone who knows other possibilities because you're not going to be self-regulating or think well or whatever while you're intentionally altering your neurochemistry. Now, I will say I know people high up in most of the major news companies. They are not news. Not on the right, not on the left. 语法解析

01:18:34

It's not news. No, it's not news. Propaganda. Yes. It is information war. I can criticize the most erudite journals because, well, they'll lie with facts, but they cherry pick their facts. They lay cough frame them in a particular way. So you either call it an illegal alien or an undocumented migrant. It means the exact same thing, but you have a totally different emotional valence. You cherry pick your facts and you say this thing is getting better when it's actually getting worse, but you're treating the symptoms or whatever it is. 语法解析

01:18:58

Who puts narratives out there? Again, it takes a lot of money to fund research. It takes a lot of money to put a narrative out there. Typically, capital streams associated with goals that support those capital streams or the political institutions and agendas that support the capital streams put out narratives that support what they do. 语法解析

01:19:13

So you should understand whenever you're watching a piece of news or reading something, what you should be thinking about is this tells me what some people want other people to believe. Yeah. Not what's actually true. Someone gave me a link to a website. I forget what it's called, which basically had the same news item, but reported from the right and the left and then the middle. And it was totally different stories. To just realize you cannot let someone spoon feed you your narrative on what is true. 语法解析

01:19:41

Cannot. No one has the right incentive here. So you have to work at it a little bit. But you can't have a meaningful life devoid from understanding what's real. Because to make meaningful choices, they have to be in relationship to reality. And I think what you said was really important is take away the things from your life that interrupt your ability to have agency. And whether it's the food you're eating, the news you're watching, the social media you're scrolling, the 语法解析

01:20:01

friends you hang out with, the things you care about. We need to sort of have more agency. As you see in your clinic every day, it's all changeable. And it's changeable acutely for each person with behaviors they can take. And it's changeable at scale for everybody with behaviors we can take to do systemic changes. Thank you. That's a good point to end on. We each can do it for ourselves and we have to do it systemically. And I think I'm working on both ends of the problem. So are you. So thank you. You are. I really hope that… 语法解析

01:20:27

function can bring a lot of these concepts and tools to everybody because they have been very niche and they shouldn't be. And I love that you're making it not only medicine for the rich, but like medicine that everybody can afford. It's super important. And then I hope the policy work can really gain some success and gain success that can keep working across administrations because science has nothing to do with political parity. And, um, 语法解析

01:20:53

That's the plan. That's the plan. That's the plan. And for those who want to learn more about Daniel's work, look at the Consilience Project. It's consilienceproject.org. We'll put links in the show notes. We'll put links to a lot of references we talked about today. 语法解析

01:21:06

This has been an incredible conversation and I feel like we could talk for another 10 hours and still keep going. So thank you so much for being on the podcast. Likewise. Thank you, my friend. When it comes to supplements, you only want the best for your body, the kind with the highest quality, cleanest and most potent ingredients you can get. That's exactly what you'll find at my supplement store where I've hand selected each and every product to meet the most rigorous standards for safety, purity and effectiveness. These are the only supplements I recommend to my patients and they're also what I use myself. 语法解析

01:21:36

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01:22:00

If you love this podcast, please share it with someone else you think would also enjoy it. Don't forget, there's a way to listen completely ad-free. With Hyman Plus on Apple Podcasts, you can enjoy every episode without any breaks. Just open Apple Podcasts and tap Try Free to start your seven-day free trial. You can find me on all social media channels at DrMarkHyman. Please reach out. I'd love to hear your comments and questions. 语法解析

01:22:22

Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to The Dr. Hyman Show wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to check out my YouTube channel at DrMarkHyman for video versions of this podcast and more. Thank you so much again for tuning in. We'll see you next time on The Dr. Hyman Show. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness Center, my work at Cleveland Clinic, and Function Health, where I am Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests' opinions. Neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. 语法解析

01:22:50

This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided with the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, please seek out a qualified medical practitioner. And if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, visit my clinic, the Ultra Wellness Center at ultrawellnesscenter.com and request to become a patient. 语法解析

01:23:16

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Edit:2025.07.03

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